so...if you can just natively run iPad OS apps on the ARM Mac, why would anyone make a Mac app ever again?

@bnys Same reason people write iPad apps instead of just iPhone.

@tewha but there's a huge gap between the capabilities of a small screen and a big screen. iPad and Mac functionally are near identical by comparison.

@bnys @tewha agreed on this point. my ipad pro 12.9" paired with a logitech mx keys and mx master 3 mouse are just as effective as my notebook. especially since i spent most of my time in a browser or in a terminal.

@mookie @bnys Not a chance, guys. That's like saying microcomputers replaced minis.

The Mac's secret feature is that it'll connect to anything and let you manipulate the UI into anything. That's not only for everyone, but it's an anti-feature for a lot of people. That's fine, though. It's still a feature others need.

@mookie @bnys I mean yes, minicomputers eventually died. But that functionality moved up to bigger things for many years, and still exists today as full-on servers.

@mookie @bnys I'm mostly thinking about external hardware here. It's true there's a lot the iPad will connect to now, but the Mac's going to have the edge int his for many years I think.

And when the iPad eventually catches up, that'll be because it "Macs" as well as Macs do.

@tewha @bnys ah, gotcha! i thought you were talking about network connectivity. this is true, a mac will connect to just about anything. but, the ipads (especially the pros with usb-c) can connect to a lot of things.

i think one of the big thing that using a mac (or for that matter linux or windows) machine has over using an ipad is filesystem access. yes, the ipad's have and that allows access to file system, but it isn't very great at this moment.

@tewha @mookie the versatility of the interface is absolutely a selling point for us nerds but for 99% of folx, who just want a browser and maybe office or a few other programs? they don't care if it's an iPad app or a Mac app. So why make anything but an iPad app that can hit 2 platforms well enough?

@bnys @mookie It's already true that you could shovel a minimal app to macOS, but not a lot of companies do.

I could absolutely see iPad apps take over, but it'll be when iPads can Mac as well as Macs (which won't require much, I don't think… but I don't think Big Sur is there).

@bnys @tewha really, even for nerds, interface flexibility is fun, but for most of what i do... i could care less. just have things work and i'm fine. gimme a browser that works great, a terminal app and access to microsoft word and i'm fine otherwise.

funny enough, i just installed roundcube on an internal linux box so that i could check my external mail using my browser instead of the outlook client.

@mookie @bnys Totally agree. In fact, I'd like a simpler Mac. I don't think my needs are peak Mac usage, though. :)

@mookie @bnys One of the things I've liked about macOS releases since Lion or so is that Apple's been making the Mac simpler in day-to-day use without actually removing the power. Meanwhile, iPadOS has been adding a few of those features without removing the simplicity. It's exciting. I don't really see one disappearing soon, but maybe one day.

@tewha @mookie iPad OS and macOS are absolutely getting closer to each other. I guess I feel like today's announcements kneecap the notion of "Macness" being special or something to be respected, and downgrades the Mac to another screen that runs iOS apps.

@bnys @mookie It's a fair thought, I didn't mean tot say otherwise, but I'm not sure if we'll ever get to the point where a non-Catalyst iPad app running on the Mac can do things only Macs can do.

Like a menu bar, drag and drop, etc.

@bnys @mookie One thing that does bother me is when people complain about the ios-ification of macOS when UI is simplified and improved. Couldn’t happen to a better operating system!

@tewha @bnys no complaints from me. i like the simplification -- and the unification of the ui.

@mookie @bnys I sort of had this discussion in 2007. "This has more power than those servers you used to work on," I said. He said something "Yes, but it won't connect to 32 networks simultaneously. There's always a market for connectivity."

He was right. It shrinks, but it still exists.

The UI mutability is more relevant, I think. I don't see iPad ever catching up there, because Apple considers it an anti-goal. (As they should, it makes things too complicated for almost everyone.)

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